Curse

Ruricu · Jul 08, 2008, 03:22 PM // 15:22

I had honestly not heard of this "sabway" craze until long after I had already completed all PvE content (all vanquishes, all dungeons, etc). I, however, used only one MM and two SS necros, with bars somewhat like this:

[Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Signet of Lost Souls][Blood of the Master][Ancestor's Rage][Splinter Weapon][Death Pact Signet]

[Spiteful Spirit][Reckless Haste][Enfeebling Blood][signet of Lost Souls][Barbs][Rip Enchantment][Protective was Kaolai][Death Pact Signet]

[Spiteful Spirit][Reckless Haste][Enfeebling Blood][Signet of Lost Souls][Mark of Pain][Blood Ritual][Protective was Kaolai][Death Pact Signet]

and then I ran Ursan to provide targeted physical damage for barbs/mop

This worked effectively for me; the dual SS's provided a good deal of physical defense that the extra MM would likely also provide. However, a variant closer to the two-MM one-SS build does look intriguing. Too bad I'm out of content, eh?

Master Necromanz · Jul 08, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Discord doesn't have enough meat shield for protection or kill as fast as dual MM.

Barbs+MoP+20 minions is just incredible. They remind me of piranhas.

Then it is not needed to cast MoP, because the quick death of target.
BUT in MANY areas, there are not much corpses etc. and in the beginning of the vanquish/mission you have not so much minions so in the begin its nearly useless. I prefer Discordway, you can use it everywhere in PvE, and it kill as fast as dual-MM.

~Master

DarkSpirit · Jul 08, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Necromanz

Then it is not needed to cast MoP, because the quick death of target.

You need to micro Barbs if you want to bring MoP.

Quote:

BUT in MANY areas, there are not much corpses etc. and in the beginning of the vanquish/mission you have not so much minions so in the begin its nearly useless. I prefer Discordway, you can use it everywhere in PvE, and it kill as fast as dual-MM.

~Master

Tried a version of discordway some one posted before, didnt really like it, attack is medium, not enough defense.

Turbobusa · Jul 08, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

You can take 3 copy of discord and have 18(20 of you go 16DM) minions, I can assure you. Ofc you also have AoE weakness and some prots. you can even sub in MoP since you seem to be fan of this skill!

-Lotus- · Jul 08, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Discord doesn't have enough meat shield for protection or kill as fast as dual MM.

Barbs+MoP+20 minions is just incredible. They remind me of piranhas.

a 4x discord team can easily maintain 20 minions and keep up MoP and Barbs... mine does. they kill fast enough that you dont need to bother with jagged bones.

Super Igor · Jul 09, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by miskav

2 signet/smite mesmers and a smiting support monk n_n

Much lurveee

DarkSpirit · Jul 09, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

You can take 3 copy of discord and have 18(20 of you go 16DM) minions, I can assure you. Ofc you also have AoE weakness and some prots. you can even sub in MoP since you seem to be fan of this skill!

MoP is good but I dont trust heroes to use it properly on their own. I either bring it on my character or micro manage it.

Tried out the pvxwiki Discord team build and it seems to work quite well.

Turbobusa · Jul 09, 2008, 05:30 PM // 17:30

The pvxwiki build is very inferior to what you can run (I posted mine in the discution, last post). Thing is, it is rated by dumb, close minded people.
Let's see, it has:
2 healers, one pseudo-protter which spreads attributes between healing, prot, SR, death magic for ultimate failure, 2 hexes only (unless you use pain inverter on the target you're going to spike...need I explain why it's dumb).

Try the version I posted, you basically have 2 MMs with one spamming death nova, and one healer.
It can be improved, but it is way, way more effective than the subpart "official" version.

OT, I also use Wounding strike dervishes... because you can't fail with it and it rapes face!

Richardt · Jul 09, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

I've been working with an Incoming para, Discord w/ minion support necro and a WoH hybrid.

I've lately been playing around with an Earth ele hero on my sin and ranger. Basically something like:

[unsteady ground][earthquake][stoning][enfeebling blood][glowstone][glyph of lesser energy][earth attunement][resurrection signet]

vandevere · Jul 09, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

I basically just do casual PvE play, so the Heroes I bring are usually Koss, Dunkaro, and Olias...

DarkSpirit · Jul 10, 2008, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

The pvxwiki build is very inferior to what you can run (I posted mine in the discution, last post). Thing is, it is rated by dumb, close minded people.
Let's see, it has:
2 healers, one pseudo-protter which spreads attributes between healing, prot, SR, death magic for ultimate failure, 2 hexes only (unless you use pain inverter on the target you're going to spike...need I explain why it's dumb).

Try the version I posted, you basically have 2 MMs with one spamming death nova, and one healer.
It can be improved, but it is way, way more effective than the subpart "official" version.

OT, I also use Wounding strike dervishes... because you can't fail with it and it rapes face!

Melee hero?..eeewwww..

Discord recharges in 2 seconds, you dont really need to use any other damage skills except for the required hexes/conditions. Where is your build?

Winterclaw · Jul 10, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Usually I have Jora (swords), Talkorah (WoH/prot hybrid), and Gwen (interrupts).

Though sometimes I like bringing Jin or Zenmai (never really noticed any problem with her using attack chains).

Super Igor · Jul 10, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

I use Sabway usually, or some variants of it, also use monk hybrids, earth eles, mesmers, nukers, rits meh...a lot of stuff.

Super Igor · Jul 10, 2008, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

The pvxwiki build is very inferior to what you can run (I posted mine in the discution, last post). Thing is, it is rated by dumb, close minded people.
Let's see, it has:
2 healers, one pseudo-protter which spreads attributes between healing, prot, SR, death magic for ultimate failure, 2 hexes only (unless you use pain inverter on the target you're going to spike...need I explain why it's dumb).

Try the version I posted, you basically have 2 MMs with one spamming death nova, and one healer.
It can be improved, but it is way, way more effective than the subpart "official" version.

OT, I also use Wounding strike dervishes... because you can't fail with it and it rapes face!

Wrong, pvx is were builds are stored and original sabway is what sab actually runs, if you think to be better than sab, think again, pretty much the same goes for discordspam.

Turbobusa · Jul 10, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

I did not say anything about sabway.
I don't even care about it.
I just said the version present as discord spam has many flaws and really only uses half the power of a death magic team.
EDIT: just read the post under. I give up. If you're not able to pass up your pride and consider my point you don't even deserve being on a forum. Think whatever you want, stick with subpart builds.

Super Igor · Jul 10, 2008, 10:06 PM // 22:06

No not really, Discord spam is very powerful, both in its damage output and defense, dont be funny, discord, necrosis on human and some hexes/conditions is all u need.

Jenn · Jul 10, 2008, 10:07 PM // 22:07

I use almost all my heroes. IMO the best way to be affective is to adapt to each environment instead of using a sweeping moderate solution. Probably the only ones that don't get a lot of use are my extra rangers, the extra dervish and the extra monks. I try and build as much damage into my heroes as possible and leave the easier jobs like healing to the henchies, which I can't micro.

I started using the dual-nec (MM+N/Rt) build before sabway was even named as such - it was quite common amongst my "group." The one thing that was immediately evident was that it was built for sustainability instead of damage. Tossing in an SS necro for the traditional "sabway" is useful, but only situationally. Even with modifications to buff the MM, it's still slow but sustainable killing, with seriously dispersed damage. The only thing I can really compliment about the triple necro build is that it protects the group with minion fodder and saves them from having to bring adequate protection alternatives.

Snow Bunny · Jul 10, 2008, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Eh, I don't have a set group.
That being said, I manage to take Enfeebling blood, a nova bomber, and some sort of serious shutdown wherever I go.
Occasionally, I take 3 Assassin's promise eles - if you micro it correctly, you can blow stuff up.
I also enjoy taking a P/N Stunning Striker w/ enfeebling blood, Spear Swipe, and Anthem of Envy. Add that to an Earthshaker and a triple chopper and you'll kill stuff hard.
Being a primary monk, it's difficult to find a good set of heroes.
The problem is that monks don't really have useful PvE skills that make them worth the bar. Seed of life is really only good for serious focus firing; I'd rather have SoA in some instances.
As a result, I'm pressured to make builds with as little defense as possible and taking prot/para henchies.
iEnjoy running BHA Rangers, AP Eles, triple discord w/ dual mms and 1 curser, paragons.
Derv and sins are used so damn poorly by the AI it's a travesty. Unless you're putting the derv on the ubiquitous orders bar.

DarkSpirit · Jul 11, 2008, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

I did not say anything about sabway.
I don't even care about it.
I just said the version present as discord spam has many flaws and really only uses half the power of a death magic team.
EDIT: just read the post under. I give up. If you're not able to pass up your pride and consider my point you don't even deserve being on a forum. Think whatever you want, stick with subpart builds.

Actually if you have tried it out, the official build isn't that bad. You certainly cant complain that it doesn't have enough heals, and Discord recharges so fast that you dont really need another "probably crappier" damage skill, so why not add more heals?

I think it can be improved upon by adding a curse/discord necro then it has the basic sabway paradigm of MM/Healer/Curse, but all of them are using Discord as their elite. That way, they can better satisfy the hex+condition requirement for Discord to work, move the curse skills from the player necro to one of the hero necro, and amplify minion damage through Barbs. This would also release the requirement for the player character to be a necro, in order to use the Discord team build effectively.

Here is the result of my testing using my mesmer instead of my necro (which works even better with triple necro discord hero team):

I dont know if it is obvious but I was in the middle of attacking the Charr team when Molotov Rocktail's group appeared (as he often does), but the Discord team was so strong that we killed them all.

On the way there, we also killed Horai Wingshielder and his group, no problem. Thus, the +4% morale boost.

Here is one where we killed Rekoff Broodmother in HM Riven Earth with 0 casualties using the exact same build. Notice that I also completely forgot to change to the Asuran blessing for the energy bonus.

ump · Jul 15, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Every one of my heros has a different hat. I just pick the heroes based on who I need. Most of the time, it's the 3 necros. Recently, I've tried the paragon orders for physical damage team. Occassionally, I swap out the curse necro or one of the paragons depending on what I need. Monk heroes might see some play in certain ursan groups. I tend to prefer multi-purpose heroes then strictly offensive or defensive builds.

Often used
Olias (death) - minion bomber
Master (curse) - curse debuffer/party support
Livia (soul reaping) - restoration healer

Morgahn (spear) - stunning spear
Hayda (leadership) - motivation support

Melonni (mysticism) - orders healing

Occasionally used
Kahmu (scythe) - forms

Dunkoro (healing) - healing
Tahlkora (protection) - protection
Odgen (smiting) - smiting

Jin (expertise) - Burning Arrow or Broadhead Arrow
Magrid (expertise) - Ebon Dust blinder
Pyre (marksmanship) - Barrage

Rarely used
Koss (axe) - damage
Jora (sword) - damage
Goren (hammer) - damage/knockdown

Souske (fire) - damage
Zhed (fire) - damage - 2 fires better than 1 fire and 1 other
Vekk (air) - blind debuffing, damage

Never used
Gwen (domination)
Norgu (illusion)
I used a domination mesmer for a brief time, but now rarely need the specialist. Usually, Broadhead Arrow is better anyways if I need it. I haven't tried the artificier builds.

Razah, Xandra, Anton, Zenmai
I don't even have a feasible build for them because I never used them (other than experimenting).